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Learning to Appreciate Joel Schumacher's Batman
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Special thanks to Ellie Fetting
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Kaugnay na balita:
Joel Schumacher obituary | Film | The Guardian
Don't Forget That Joel Schumacher Briefly Saved Batman
'Batman and Robin' director Joel Schumacher dies aged 80 - In the press
Les 5 films cultes réalisés par Joel Schumacher
Director Joel Schumacher Dead At 80
Vale Joel Schumacher – the Hollywood legend who brought us brat packs, teen vampires and Falling Down
Joel Schumacher: Stars remember 'creative and heroic' Lost Boys director - BBC News
This video hits different now that Joel Schumacher has just died
Bratan der Meerschweinchen:
RIP mr. schumacher 😓
Your movies weren't masterpieces but they still were entertaining. And that's something to be proud of. Batman forever is my guilty pleasure.
The nipples literally never bothered me. It's two dots on a grown man dressed as a bat lol
I'm with ya on Jim Carrey and Uma Thurman's performances.. over the top, chewing the scenery, a lot of fun.
They're the perfect movies to get drunk too.
I was obsessed with B&R when I was little. I loved the sets and the crazy colours and remade Ivy's lair for my barbie dolls. As for Batman Forever I still think it had the best film introspective to Bruce as a character. Val Kilmer wasn't the most convincing Batman but he's the best Bruce IMO.
My biggest problem with these movies: the titles.
The third movie should be titled “Batman & Robin”.
The fourth movie should be titled “Batman 4Ever”
Today is a sad day. R.I.P. Joel.
You forgot that in the 90s, fans also got an excellent animated series that was on every afternoon after school that the campy movies were up against.
Riddler last scene just freaked me out when i was a kid
Jason - The RapNerd:
Its funny because even as a kid, I could understand that the films were a "different take" of batman. I mean, I loved the animated series but still loved those films.
Schumacher is a brilliant director.
I really liked Joel Schumacher's neon lit exaggerated tall Gothic Gotham. It had a great atmosphere. Batman Forever imo had the best Batmobile and Batwing.
I will defend Batman Forever until my dying day.
Between the 2 Schumacher Batmans my pick is Forever.
I love how no one ever mentions the fact that burton's batman and schumaker batman are the same character. In the first film Batman doesnt shy from killing. In the second Batman ultimately makes the choice to not kill anymore. Then in forever Robin comes along and Batman has to learn what it is to be a father figure a role he wasnt prepared for. Then in batman and Robin we see Bruce come to terms that he may not be around to protect Robin as he sees what's happening to Alfred. This is shown not told which I admire. It's a good character arch. I wish they took it a little further by taking an unrecognizable character that ultimately becomes The Batman we read about. Take out all the camp and bright colors and the story is good. My major critique of the dark knight trilogy is that they missed this. They had started the arch with begins but missed the mark with Dark Knight.
“I like how all the villains don’t die.” *cough* Two-Face *cough*
Unpopular self-admission: I saw Forever and B&R pretty young, and I was actually fairly obsessed with both. But I also grew up with a lot of camp. 🤷🏼♀️
One other thought: The lighter, almost goofier nature of Batman himself in _Batman and Robin_ makes perfect sense following on from the end of _Forever:_ "You see, I am *both* Bruce Wayne *AND* Batman. Not because I have to be...now, because I choose to be." Freed from his past tragedy, Bruce is a happier man who carries on with his dark persona because it's the right thing to do.
...The major issue with that one, though, is that *everything else* is so light and fluffy and campy as to be inconsequential.
Have to make a note of tracking down _Batman and Mr. Freeze: Sub-Zero_ one of these days.
We’ll Blade actually brought the seriousness back to comics 🧛🏿♂️⚔️
"that gotham show I never watched"
Patrick, you need to fix that.
Jonas Blane II:
Now that Joel just passed away Batman and Robin will be seen as a materpiece.
I think what also could have been stated is how overtly edgelord "dark" the 90s comics were at the time. Everything in comics was dark edgy with guns knives swords skulls chains (spawn lol) and these movies were from the campy silverage era. We had a clear expectation of Burtons dark 1989 but also no real other comic book contenders (I dont think Blade had come out yet, which had the perfect amount of R rated and dark theme). I think now if it came out in a very saturated comicbook movie era it would be better recieved cuz fans would know "this isnt the only thing weve got". I think a good (and better movie) example is Lego Batman, def intended as comedy and camp and for a younger audience.
I agree with this. I have always said that Batman and Robin and Batman Forever were just comic books (as you point out, from the 60s) translated directly to the screen.
Blade made the MCU possible, with its tax dodging star and Traci Lords cameo.
Another point: it's quite clear that the Lego Batman games are inspired by the Schumacher films and those games are incredible
wait, Joel Schumacher's movies were bad? What the hell, I loved each and every one of them as a kid! They re-aired one of them on tv about an year back and I STILL liked it. We obviously have different tastes...
I loved Batman and Robin as a kid, it's still a great comedy and action set-piece. Mr. Freeze's suit looks incredible.
I must confess, I loved "The Shadow" movie.
Anguel Roumenov Bogoev:
I always thought they were aight. i think it was just one of those things where the angriest voices were disproportionately heard.
"It was a less woke time" Jesus that's the most 2019 thing I've heard all 2020
RIP Joel Schumacher.
RIP Joel Schumacher. He really did make some amazing movies and I’m glad this video is here as...a bit of a eulogy to his filmography.
*Requiescat in pace, Joel Schumacher.*
If movies ever needed a defense lawyer, it would be Patrick H. Willems
"There is, and has always been, a gay subtext there. Schumacher just noticed it and emphasized it." More like decided to stop pretending like it wasn't there. There is no way for a story about an adult man stalking the night, isolating himself from everyone and everything except a little boy in green undies, to not have a gay subtext. Schumacher just had the courage to acknowledge it and lean into it.
With that said, Batman and Robin is just too campy. It's dissonant both with the tone of the earlier movies, and its own more serious themes. There are a lot of scenes in it that I liked on their own merits, and which have stayed with me for this many years, but the movie as a whole gives a very scattered and unfocused impression.
I think the main issue with the Schumacher films is tieing them to the Burton films. Even though I loved Alfred in the 4 90s films, I wouldn't have mind him being replaced as well as Commissioner Gordon. Pat Hingle had barely anything to do in the Burton films. I mean Harvey was black in Batman 89 and they changed him. They also changed the theme but had the original theme playing for the previews.
If Batman Returns was too dark for the toy makers and kids, why associate Forever as a sequel? Just say that they are moving a new direction with the Batman films to be more kid accessible.
Love that you mention the original Flatliners. I legitimately love that film, and have ever since I picked it up in some bargain bin somewhere as a teenager. It's genuinely great, heavily stylised entertainment.
Reading the comic books in the 70s and 80s, I realized that each editor and/or writer had their vision of Batman. So now I know which version or movie I like more than others.
More people should learn to enjoy aspects of all while having favorites.
Rewatching out of respect for Joel. RIP
11:48 "why does serious or dark equal better? this is the thinking of dudes who need to validate their continued enjoyment of stuff they loved as children" ...No, serious/dark stories and characters are a realistic reflection of the world we live in and are more relatable making us actually care about characters and stories we can empathize with. Characters doing nonsense things in nonsense situations detach the audience because we have no reason to care or empathize for these characters and stories.
Tim Burton should make another Batman now. I'm sure he wouldn't cast Robert Pattinson.
Max C. Klein:
Joel Schumacher didn’t make the Brat Pack famous with St. Elmo’s Fire, John Hughes did with The Breakfast Club.
“Joel Schumacher has nothing to apologize for” is actually a pretty reasonable thing to say.
*Sees Title* Me: *J Jonah Jameson Laugh*
Edit: I admit i like Batman Forever but it's nothing compared to Tim Burton's films in my opinion.
once again Blade gets forgotten as the first of a new darker wave of comic movies the year after Batman and Robin and two years before X-men.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
I've been saying this since I went to the premiere back in the day. I've sung this song every time the discussion comes up. Hey made a comic book movie and it just worked.
If people don't like coffee, fine. This isn't coffee. It's a vodka Redbull. A lot of people don't care for it and that's fine. I loved it.
I definitely get your points about Schumacher's Batman, and I agree to a large extent. But, I would encourage you to actually look into the Snyder Cut campaign before just signing off on it. It's less about "this isn't MY *insert superhero*" and more about "WB really took advantage of a terrible situation and honestly kinda majorly screwed over a dude who's honestly known for being a standup guy in a town that is known for not-stand-up people." The campaign is also donating a significant portion of its funds to suicide prevention charities.
I watched Batman Forever like 30 minutes ago and then this drops? Pretty neat.
I've always loved Batman Forever!
En Ming Hee:
The 90s was also known for those flops adapted from edgy/underground titles like Tank Girl, The Mask, Spawn and Barb Wire. Have you ever done a video essay on those?
I kinda got into Wutang Clan cause I was a pre-teen and Method Man had a Riddler song on the Forever soundtrack... and the U2/Seal songs were great.
As I told Lady Fries when I pulled her plug, "this is a one-woman show!"
Hey I loved the video, but there's one fundamental aspect you overlooked when it comes to Batmans' versatility.
He's changed over the decades out of necessity.
Superman was always the biggest seller, and homogenized into a brand that Batman followed in the 50's.
But by the early 60's the character was in a slump, so the New Look 1964, brought back some of his original detective characteristics.
Then the 67 TV show pushed the comics into camp, making it a parody of itself.
While the show was based more on Golden Age Bill Finger ideas.
Superman remained the top seller for decades till Batmans' slow rise in the 80's and 90's.
And now he is the current Superhero King of Comics.
Spiderman is the opposite of Supermans homogenized standard.
So neither of those characters can change radical cause that's not who they are.
Batman is Batman cause he can't be Superman or Spiderman.(though the 50's version tried)
These characters should always be written to their individual strengths.
I agree with everything you’ve said here except for one thing.
I’m sorry, but Batman is not gay. In fact he is quite the opposite. Morrison’s explanation of what makes something gay is very shallow and misinformed. He should just stick to writing comics. If anything, Batman represents the pinnacle of heterosexual masculinity. He is like the Dalai Lama of comic books.
For the same reason, Snyder’s ‘300,’ is also not gay.
Why, oh why, does everyone talk about the uptick in comic book films start with X-Men and forget about Blade!
Thank you for helping me let go of Young Me's perception of these movies - and appreciating the Schumacher movies for what they are with grown up eyes.
Patrick in February: I need.... Hotter Takes!
Everyone in July: Well... it's not like he didn't warn us
Rest in peace good man, your film sculpted me when I was a boy. I will always be indebted to you for that.
God bless you.
Thank you! Thank you!! Thank you!!! I enjoy the Schumacher films because, quite frankly, they're so honest with the material. Given the tonal changes throughout Batman's history in comics, cartoons, and film, it seems almost nonsensical to harbor animosity towards two films that simply tip their hat to one particular era. After getting beat over the head in the Frank Miller era, its refreshing to revisit these films that understand being too serious can create unintended camp as well (which is how I feel about BVS). Whats most interesting is how timeless both of these films feel. There's something to be said for creating your own world in this genre, because it keeps the movie from aging badly due to dated concepts directors tried to adhere to when they felt trendy at that moment. Unfortunately trends never last.
I thought Schumacher did a great job of staying within the parameters of the world he created. He makes a comic book environment and never tries to wander outside that established treatment to cater to modern ideas of the day. This keeps the movie consistently fresh in appearance and less like a byproduct of the era it was made in. Unfortunately many of the films in the Batman franchise do not enjoy that distinction. Patrick thank you for making this video and creating a strong case to essentially let the general public know it's okay to like these films. People need to get over this much maligned resentment that really has no reason to exist today.
Gillian Shoshannah Berkowitz:
I actually really appreciate both Batman V Superman and the Schumacher films
Jim Carrey is my favourite Riddler! He is just perfect in this role and tbh, he really is the most valid reason to watch Batman Forever.
Twenty years from now Patrick will be making a video arguing he likes Batman v Superman now.
Gold Bond Ultimate Hydrating Lotion:
the only thing that really bothered me about these movies was when they called Two-Face "Harvey Two-Face"
Love the Schumarkter Bats. It was really fun stab at the character, and I will watch another one if it ever comes out.
This is a fantastic video. It's completely accurate. I have, like you, come to appreciate the Schumacher movies as film adaptations of the the silver age comics and the 60's tv series. They are high camp and living cartoons. I still PREFER Burton's films (RETURNS being my favorite) but they work. They work well. And I have found that enjoying different versions of the same character. I truly enjoy BATMAN V SUPERMAN (I find the Ultimate cut quite fantastic) AND Lego Batman AND the Dark Knight trilogy etc. etc. Variety is magnificent.
(And LAST JEDI was wonderful).
Jar Jar Binks:
"Learning to love my life strapped down in my kidnapper's basement"
Ruthless Savage Hatred:
Hot take: I enjoyed Schumacher's Batman movies AND Snyder's
RIP Joel....you made some amazing movies and I will always love your Batman movies :(
It's June 22nd, 2020 and this is the most important video in the world. RIP JS
It's Just Good To Know Theres Someone Else Out There That Feels The Same Way I Do I Love Batman Forever & I'll Defend That Movie Til The Day I Die & I Would Definitely Take The Older Batman Movies Over Batman Vs. Superman
REST IN PEACE FOREVER JOEL SCHUMACHER AND THANKS FOR THE INSPIRATION AND MY CHILDHOOD TOO !!!
To me, Wesley Snipe's Blade was the true catalyst which truly influenced future comic book movies.
Dinastía Chow Fan:
They improved with age because they are not formulaic. They are very original takes and the production design is freaking beautiful.
The King in the North:
RIP Mr. Schumacher.
Rip Joel Schumacher, you made some odd films but ya made classics like Falling Down, Lost Boys and Phone Booth.
One thing I appreciate about Schumacher's Batman's films was the set designs and the cinematography. I also find it ironic people bash Schumacher's Batman for its humour but MCU does the same thing, and it's "OMG! Best movie of the year! It's fun!"
“The villains aren’t misunderstood damaged outcasts” said with a shot of Mr Freeze who actually was a misunderstood damaged outcast as he was doing everything for his sick wife.
I know this video is in defence of Batman and Robin but I feel dirty doing the same thing
I have for some time said Schumacher has nothing to apologize for. He made two films that were very much rooted in 50's and 60's Batman. If you want to ignore or discount his movies, then you ignore the history of the character. I enjoy the Schumacher films, always have. I even like BvS :)
Batman Triumphant would've been the best Joel Schumacher Batman
I don’t need to learn. it’s my third favorite Batman film behind 1989 and Returns. I like it more than the Dark Knight trilogy yes because over the years those films became kinda stale to me. They have many things that are still really cool but I can’t enjoy them as much as the other 3 films I have here. Kilmer is a great Batman and fantastic Bruce Wayne to me, Chris O’ Donnell Is a good Robin and alright Dick Grayson, And Jim Carrey is perfect for the insane Riddler. Behind the smart semi psychotic exterior of Edward Nigma is a mentally insane fool almost crazier than Joker. Two-Face, I enjoyed him because of the quotes, scenes he’s in, and Tommy Lee Jones is always good no matter what he’s in even though he was ramping the comedy aspect up just to challenge Jim. Alfred is good as always. Jim Gordon is very funny in many scenes. Chase is... my least favorite part about the film. I’m sure we know why. The soundtrack is utterly Fantastic! I can’t explain in words how much I love the Soundtrack. The set designs are very fun and more of a futuristic Blacklight Gotham that I enjoy very much. The Costumes are very nice especially The Sonar suit in the end of the film that I hope gets an Action Figure someday. That’s mostly all of my praises and flaws with the film. Not much. I really enjoyed the film and always will. I hope to meet members of the cast someday and tell how much I enjoyed it
Great video! Always loved Batman Forever and totally agree that Batman & Robin is like a big budget Adam West era movie 👍
*22:30** Verdict on how well this has dated, fellas?*
15:10 I think the videomaker overlooked the Gotham City from Batman Begins which Nolan created. I thought that was a comic booky visually great Gotham that's often forgotten by fans and overshadowed by his Dark Knight gotham when they think of his trilogy
Patrick (H) Willems: Seriously, it’s time to get over the nipples.
Me: I know! That’s what I keep saying!!
Shaped Butt costumes, Batman could be Robin’s sugar daddy.
I’m so watching this movies. You made me give them a chance.
Bunny in the Box:
You should have driven there by car...chicks dig the car.
En Ming Hee:
RIP Joel Schumacher! You had a good run and a fun one!
On the note of Batman's inherit "gayness," my only issue is that the general idea of it (amongst a wider audience) seems to stem from Batman and *Robin*, who is, y'know, a young boy and Bruce's adoptive son.
Huh. I thought it was generally accepted that Michael Keaton might be one of the best “Batmen” ever.
How interesting that this popped up on my recommendations during quarantine where I start appreciating these movies too
I unironically love Batman Forever.
B&R, on the other hand...
I actually really love Batman Forever. It's actually one of my favorite Batman movies. Granted, it's mostly because I think Jim Carrey's Riddler is one of the best comic book villains ever put to film, but I really love the movie. I don't like Batman & Robin that much, though, but to be honest, I wasn't crazy about Batman Returns, either. Either way, I really think these movies (Forever in particular) get way too much hate.
One point i highly disagree with in this video, the more serious bits within Batman and Robin and Forever were some of THE BEST parts of the movies to me
real talk tho Flat Liners does rule also when I think Joel Schumacher I think Lost Boys and Flat Liners I forget he did Bat Man
Hey Patrick! Big fan of the channel. I love that you just make bold statements and just straight up tell everyone what you're passionate about and don't forget to mention the good aspects of bad movies without changing your opinions to fit with everyone else. Great job man!
Hey, everyone. Go watch the Brave and the Bold animated series.
Batman Forever could be greatly improved with a Directors cut very easily
I'm no comic book expert, but I've seen some of the original Batman comics. Batman was most definitely NOT made for kids. At first.